Poverty. We all know that poverty causes an increase in crime figures, particularly the incidence of violent crime. In a bygone error young people of both leisure and business like ourselves would have attributed such a thing to the innate criminality of peasants. Today we call it laziness and/or drugs and/or 'bad homes' (a fantastic euphamism by the way; says nothing but conveys the most amazingly useful negative emotional judgements) and/or weak minds/poor genes/schooling/whatever fills the journals of the time that is equally entertaining but pointless.

That's very true. The root of every problem in Indonesia is poverty and the strategy to address it (or lack of thereof).. You may have heard the May 1998 riot in Jakarta. This was seven years ago, but until todate there has never been a true willingness from our government to address the root of the problem. Indonesian government seem to care more about headlines and swept the issues under the carpet once it's not on the news. This apathy and the power struggle between political parties pose a roadblock to a strong platform to address social issues, especially as the governing party does not hold a majority in parliament -- even the vice president has more say in the parliament.

Well.. what's the cure really? As a chinese catholic Indonesian that has native muslim friends, I understand the true nature of muslims (at least in Indonesia). They are not evil. Most of them are very humble, religious, and accepting in nature (especially the poor ones). It's just that the socioeconomic gap between the rich and poor are too wide. Indonesia's economy is slightly better than May 1998. Our macro economy is more stable than before. The rich people have more income. But I dare not say that the living condition of poor people in Indonesia is much better -- in fact for some it has been much worse. But there must be a sacrifice and we really need to have our priority sorted. Who really gives a damn about "dangdut" singer wearing short skirts in a performance? People and children are dying every second and what are these so-called "religious-leaders" doing?

We need to remove government's subsidy and privatize state companies with a buyback option. This is not an easy medicine but that's the only good option left. The recent hike in gasoline price may have killed thousands of poor families. But again, it would save hundreds of thousands in the long run. The cash obtained by the government should be used to improve education quality. And our government must hire a team of foreign experts to supervise where the money goes. Pay them high if needed, but we need to make sure the money goes to the right place. That's because education is very important and to be frank our education system is just utterly crap. In my opinion, one of the worst in the world.

I sincerely believe that once we have more educated society, our living standard will be higher and corruption will decrease. Most Indonesians are humble in nature (which is not necessarily bad) -- but we need to be more analytical and more driven. The key of success is education and good personality (to be humble enough to learn from everything around us).

The fact that you can "not give a damn" is due to the ever increasing vigilance of the police and armed forces the world over.  You should give a damn, for if your attitude spreads, then people will start hindering the police as it is an inconvenience, and another Bali Night Club will happen.

Instead of being lacksidasical about the recent episode, perhaps you should thank your Bobbies (or whatever they are called down under) for making sure the fools only killed themselves, and not anyone you love.

BTW:  Virtually none of the terrorists that do this do it because of poverty. Bin Laden and Zarquawi are not poor schmucks.

Dr. Guy, indeed cactoblasta said that terrorism is not worth giving a damn, but I believe what he actually means is there is a more urgent priority. That is solving the poverty problem, because poverty is the food for terrorism. You may not agree to that, but I have lived in Indonesia for almost my entire life. Having also lived in western society, I can reasonably compare that poverty is indeed the drive.

It is true that Bin Laden and Zarqawi are very wealthy. But it does not mean their followers are also rich. Their followers are easily manipulated because of lack of basic necessity and education. For them, terrorism is an easy way out of the problem. They got nothing to lose, so why afraid to blow themselves up and follow "god's will"? Unlike in the west, a great deal of people in the east believe in supranatural power and myths. However, educated people would easily dismissed these nonsense. Hence, why it is very important to educate the poor. Get them out of poverty and they will naturally understand that terrorism does no good.

The fact that you can "not give a damn" is due to the ever increasing vigilance of the police and armed forces the world over. You should give a damn, for if your attitude spreads, then people will start hindering the police as it is an inconvenience, and another Bali Night Club will happen.

I've spent many an unproductive day hanging with the local police (it's polisi, by the way, cos I'm no longer 'down under'). I know full well they spend much of their time not desperately seeking terrorists but playing chess and enjoying the ocasional chilled beverage/bribe for pulling over someone.

Frankly I don't care if there's yet another bombing in Bali. The chances of it causing any lasting harm to any people except the poor Balinese is minimal. The kind of people who frequent clubs in Bali don't especially rank on my 'respected and loved' lists either, so don't bother with that argument. You know already I'm an arrogant prick.

Oh, and to further understand how many poor but desperate Indonesians view the recent death of Mr Azahari, I went to visit the bombsite. After chatting with the locals everyone seemed to think it was a good thing he was gone (much 'one left!' excitement and an abundance of fairy floss). No one, however, was especially sure why these guys wanted to blow things up. And if you head out into the country, visit a few of the more remote pesantren (religious schools, often mis(correctly?)labeled breeding grounds for terrorism) you'll see just how much a dearth of materials due to lack of funding can allow fundamentalist philosophies to grow in popularity through the school system.

BTW: Virtually none of the terrorists that do this do it because of poverty. Bin Laden and Zarquawi are not poor schmucks.

I think I explain that in the article (ie lower crime rates and you'll eventually lower even white collar) but the paragraph a few centimetres above also covers this a little. If you still don't understand my point feel free to ask. I'm here to help...

We need to remove government's subsidy and privatize state companies with a buyback option. This is not an easy medicine but that's the only good option left. The recent hike in gasoline price may have killed thousands of poor families. But again, it would save hundreds of thousands in the long run. The cash obtained by the government should be used to improve education quality. And our government must hire a team of foreign experts to supervise where the money goes. Pay them high if needed, but we need to make sure the money goes to the right place. That's because education is very important and to be frank our education system is just utterly crap. In my opinion, one of the worst in the world.

I don't think it's necessary to get foreigners to do it - there are plenty of capable Indonesian working overseas who can responsibly manage large funds. But I do have to agree with your comment on the education system. Schools here are frankly laughable compared to the ones I went to back home. If Yudyohono is both serious and capable of shifting funding from the subsidies to the education system then it would be a good step. But realistically I doubt he has the political pull, and the major parties don't have the political will. So I think there'll just be another scandal about some minister embezzling trillions into their own private coffers.

I don't know about the whole privatisation deal - if anything Australia and other countries have generally noticed a gradual decline in services to poor communities after privatisation, and with the way the rich in Indonesia are focussed into their gated communities I think that could be a recipe for anarchy. Can you imagine what would happen in electricity companies in Jakarta decided to stop power to the poorer suburbs because the lines wouldn't make enough profit? I don't think that would be too fun.

But you do have a point - something has to be done. The only people who can make a difference though are people like yourself (correct me if I presume too much) - educated, comparatively wealthy and able to take on positions of power (as an ethnic chinese I guess that would be through the economic sector rather than politics, but you know the game better than I).

who said anything about spreading communism? A little bit of Fordian economics and perhaps a hell of a lot less corruption on the part of the Indonesian government would go a long way. Communism isn't going to help the problem, and I have no idea when you decided to change ranks and support it... I suppose though that free speech entitles you to your opinions.

You do realise though that the chances of Indonesians getting hold of a dirty bomb are more than a little limited, don't you? There are no nuclear reactors in the country, and although the main players are comparatively wealthy, they really only have the rough resource levels of an upper-middle class businessman. hardly enough to go bargaining with North Korea. No, terrorist attacks from Indonesia aren't really likely to be big-scale. What the Oz government was doing before I left is on the right track -

sure, devote some money to counter-terrorism, but give the bulk to governance and aid programs. They do the trick a lot better and are easier to sell to the public.

And in the event there was a dirty bomb attack on Sydney then I wouldn't have to worry about it anyway - the death of most of the south-eastern seaboard would include me you know. So I suppose from my critics' perspective it would be all for the best.

It wouldn't be the end of the world, the world order or even australia, so really if some dumbarse really wants to make their cause unconscionable then in the words of everyone's favourite current American president, 'bring it on'. I'd rather they didn't, but frankly if they can get dirty nukes through some of the easiest-guarded borders in the world, then on a pure power-based level they deserve to slaughter everyone standing within range. Survival of the fittest and all that right-wing bullshit you know.

I get it now, cacto, since you personally feel safe in Indonesia, to hell with everyone else, right?

For sure - the only way freedom can work is by everyone following their own self-interest to the exclusion of all others. I wouldn't dream of attempting to undermine the very basis for my society. It would be extremely rude.

For sure - the only way freedom can work is by everyone following their own self-interest to the exclusion of all others.

Well then maybe every country should have their own vehicles, grow their own fruits and veggies, raise their own animals, find their own gasoline, you get the point, and completely isolate yourself from the rest of the world. BTW don't expect any financial help when a earthquake hits or a tsunami strikes or a volcano erupts.

Well then maybe every country should have their own vehicles, grow their own fruits and veggies, raise their own animals, find their own gasoline, you get the point, and completely isolate yourself from the rest of the world. BTW don't expect any financial help when a earthquake hits or a tsunami strikes or a volcano erupts.

Um, thanks for the advice. However there's a big difference between "acting in your own self-interests" (the foundation of modern economics and the source of the much-maligned concept of the guiding hand) and autarky, which appears to be your suggestion.

But I do appreciate the irrelevency of your reply. It seems that people increasingly these days wish to debate the point rather than scavenge for vitriol on the edge. I'm glad you've decided to walk the noble path of the sideswiper.