Religion of War Update 2008

Published on March 7, 2008 By cactoblasta In International

So a few weeks back one of the world's foremost studies on attitudes to war, peace and apathy in Islam was released to the media (but not the public).

I was waiting for Brad to post it up, as demographic surveys of Muslim countries are one of his regular topics.

But he hasn’t yet, so I thought I’d mention it and throw it up to JU.

Looking at the handful of figures that are out right now, I think everyone can probably find something to point to and say, “Wow, I’m awesome, this data totally backs up my point.”

Being insufferably venal and self-aggrandising, that sounds like something I’d be quite interested in, thank you.

So if you’ll all please make yourselves entirely comfortable let’s have a look first of all at news.com.au’s coverage - you may have an outlet you prefer more, so feel free to google the book of the survey – I’m sure they’ll have a summary on there. Here’s the link for ye who don’t fear News Limited : http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23283905-23109,00.html

What struck me most of all was this statement, which I’ll quote here in full:

"The radicals are better educated, have better jobs, and are more hopeful with regard to the future than mainstream Muslims,'' said John Esposito, who co-authored Who Speaks for Islam.
"Ironically, they believe in democracy even more than many of the mainstream moderates do, but they're more cynical about whether they'll ever get it,'' he said.

The idea that the radicals are more into the democracy but don’t believe it’s possible makes me think a great deal of folks in Oz who feel the same way – the hippies, the leftists, the old and new-school conservatives.

There must be another driver.

Conveniently, the survey makes the link for us (if you’re prepared to accept the Esposito factor; the man has a reputation only the oracle of Google can reveal).

The driver?

Radical Muslims are driven by political concerns, not religious. In fact, the research apparently reveals that religion was frequently used as an explanation against violence.

I’m going to try and get my hands on a copy of the book of the survey of the movie when it comes out later this month. I suggest anyone interested in these issues do the same.

It’s always good to have primary data on contemporary issues, despite my personal reservations about surveys.

Comments

stubbyfinger

on Mar 08, 2008

But only 7 per cent of the billion Muslims surveyed condoned the attacks on the United States in 2001, the poll showed.

How do you survey almost a half a million people a day?

Not disagreeing with your point here it's just that seems highly unlikely.

Dr Guy

on Mar 08, 2008

Not disagreeing with your point here it's just that seems highly unlikely.

I dont know the research from adam, but I can only look at actions. And right now, they speak louder than surveys.

Could they be right about the radicals (extremists)? Sure. As has been debated here from the day I got here, religion is often used as an excuse for actions, but is not the cause.

Still, it then falls upon the rest of the religious body to disavow the clowns. SOmething that is rarely done, in history, or now with Islam.

cactoblasta

on Mar 08, 2008

How do you survey almost a half a million people a day?

Not disagreeing with your point here it's just that seems highly unlikely.

My guess is that news.com.au made a mistake - it's most likely a statistical sample rather than an interview with every single living Muslim.

How do you survey almost a half a million people a day?

Not disagreeing with your point here it's just that seems highly unlikely.

We've covered this ground at least a dozen times over the last few years, Dr Guy. I'm not going to do it again. Be a man and be arsed to look into it for yourself for once, will you?

It's actually damn clear that the vast majority of Muslims reject and disavow radical bombers and the like. You only have to ask them to see that, and if you don't like to speak to 'ethnic types' five minutes googling will reveal rejections by most of the world's major Muslim organisations.

It's not rarely done, it's so commonly done that it's not even news.

Island Dog

on Mar 09, 2008

Radical Muslims are driven by political concerns, not religious.

Try to remember that when they are cutting your head off screaming "allah akbar".

Dr Guy

on Mar 09, 2008

We've covered this ground at least a dozen times over the last few years, Dr Guy. I'm not going to do it again. Be a man and be arsed to look into it for yourself for once, will you?

First, quote what you are arsing about.

Second, I stated I was not going to argue with the survey. And I did not. I merely pointed out that deeds speak louder than words. And the deeds of the religious body speak of acceptance of the actions of the radicals (extremists).

Now perhaps you want to remove that foot from your mouth?

cactoblasta

on Mar 09, 2008

Try to remember that when they are cutting your head off screaming "allah akbar".

Thanks for the tip! I agree, it is very hard to remember that words matter less than actions, but if it ever comes to that situation I'll remember to follow your good advice and dissociate a clearly political action from the unifying religious trappings that are used in an attempt to legitimise my ritualistic murder.

And the deeds of the religious body speak of acceptance of the actions of the radicals (extremists).

Ah, so you're referring to a shared action of all Muslims? I'm sorry, you were a little too vague.
Islam doesn't have many common rituals, but I suppose you could consider Ramadan a sign of acceptance of the actions of radicals, or praying to Mecca.
It's a bit odd and not something I agree with, but if that's what you believe then I can't imagine how I would go about changing your mind.
I think we'll just have to agree that there is no possible common ground on our issue - your approach to human behaviour is vastly too different for me. I would never have made the link between fairly mundane religious ritual that's lasted centuries and a specific political intention only relevant to right now.

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